Cleveland VS Windsor

What's the difference between Windsor and Cleveland engines?[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

a 351W is a small block, alot of 302 parts are compatible. Parts are easier to find, and more of them are built up.
351C, my personal fav., is a block from the 335[i think] engine series. not too many parts fit from a small block.
the bore and stroke are the same. windsor's water outlet from the block is through the manifold in the front, cleve. is just straight from the front top of the block.

i know i missed alot, but thats the basics to me
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both are small blocks. They both take small block bellhousings. The main differences are the heads. The cleveland has a canted valve lay out, with HUGE ports and valves. There are 2 different CLEVELANDS that is there were 2v and 4v. Both had more than generous ports, and valves. The big cleveland had 2.19" intake valves, and 1.71" exhaust valves. The intake ports could easily fit a lime into them.

Also the mains were smaller on the cleveland...2.75" I do believe. The 351C was only made 70-74 so the parts for it are just not as abundant as the more readily available 351 Windsor (go to australia where the Cleveland was built till the 80's and it is the opposite.) Because there are so many more Windsors out there than clevelands, the windsor got more attention with the aftermarket. Also a reason the aftermarket was so strong to the Windsor was because it was MUCH HARDER to make these go fast from the factory where as the Cleveland was much easier.

The 351 C was based after the BOSS 302, and was pretty much the same (more or less) as the BOSS 351.

Also, the cleveland Intake is dry, whereas the windsors is not.

Now maybe some Windsor people will come in and give you some more info...


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Actually the Boss302 was based on the Cleveland. It just was rushed out to meet the Trans-Am needs early.

The cleveland block (351) is smaller than the Windsor block overall. 9.200" deck height C, 9.48,9.503" on Windsor.

In Australia, the 302 is from the Cleveland family! Never made in the US.
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The C has oodles of horsepower more than a W [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] All of the above, plus the C has 2.749 mains vs the W's 3". C has a shorter rod due to it's deck - 5.78 vs 5.955. Piston pin heights are different - don't have those figures handy.
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On 2003-11-20 23:51, allenman85 wrote:
Actually the Boss302 was based on the Cleveland. It just was rushed out to meet the Trans-Am needs early.
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The only commonality between the Boss 302 and the 351C/Boss 351 is the heads. That's it.

So the Aussie Cleveland heads are actually 302 heads? I need a set for my C. These would be sweet....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2443589716
[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_tup.gif[/img][img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
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Mightymach, I do not agree with your statment:
Quote:
both are small blocks. They both take small block bellhousings. The main differences are the heads.

I would say that the only thing they have in common is the boltcircle for the bellhousing and heads.
And that the Cleveland has the same bore and stroke as the Windsor.
The rest of the 335 family (351M and 400M) has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 385 family (429 and 460).

Allenman85:
The Boss 302 has slightly modified Cleveland heads.
If I recall this correct, I think it´s the water passage to the intakemanifold thats differs, since the Cleveland doesn´t have water in the intake.
Other than the heads the Boss302 doen´t have anything in common with the Cleveland.

Have a nice weekend,
Jalle

Are you guys forgetting about the short-lived 302 tunnel port heads? They were developed for Trans-Am, before moving to the more readily available Cleveland heads...a bean counter solution to a performance problem.

The "Aussie" 2-v heads are suggested as an attempt to "civilize" the Clevelend heads for low rmp use on small block engines. Peak HP, will increase with 4-v heads, butlow/mid range intake velocity will be lower...usually causing a decrese in overall average HP under the useable rpm curve.

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The "Aussie" 2-v heads are suggested as an attempt to "civilize" the Clevelend heads for low rmp use on small block engines. Peak HP, will increase with 4-v heads, butlow/mid range intake velocity will be lower...usually causing a decrese in overall average HP under the useable rpm curve.
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True, but with the availablity of the Parker Funnelwebs and his port stuffers designed for that intake, a little extra work and $$$ changes that whole picture.

Also - The Aussi 2V's usually come in 58 cc chambers - about 11+:1 compression on a 2V engine. THe 4V heads run 62cc+, making a more manageable 10.5 or so.