cleveland vs windsor

You have to remember that the Cleveland heads don't flow all that well compared to some of the aftermarket heads available for the Windsor engine family. I guess if you were going back stock, then maybe a Cleveland would be the way to go. I would go with a motor that you can get a wider selection of parts for, and affordable aluminum heads to boot.

FWIW - my ported 2V's flow about the same as an Edelbrock Perfomer RPM head. The exhausts outflow a lot of aftermarket heads. A stock 4V intake with port tongues and a mild cleanup flows over 300cfm.

Copied from a post on 351Cleveland.net:

"I finally got my heads finished.
D3ZE 4v oc
2.19 int. 1.71 exh. SI valves
68 cc chammbers (milled .025)
screw in ARP 7/16 studs
intake ports raised .400" with epoxy
ported and polished
head flowed with intake bolted on
flowed @28"
int. / exh.
.100 70 / 58
.200 144 / 104
.300 208 / 155
.400 257 / 200
.500 297 / 217
.600 323 / 221
.650 332 / 222
.700 326 / 225"

This is what I have heard from a lot of people: A cleveland will moake more power than any other stock motor. I believe it. Although the Windsor is a good motor, I think my next will be a cleveland.

you cleavland guys forget it will make more power in stock form but wont last as long i know this from doing both engines the cleav. to make dependable power takes a lot of machine work and mods not to mention the parts avalibity they dont fall out of trees and parts are more than 30% more to buy including special size valves pistons ect. and they have serios oiling troubles.thats my o2 i have both motors for the money the windsor is better also the block gives up at around 600 hp the windsor will go 1000 hp with a 69 block do the math now if you just 13.00 second car it will do also remember if you hurt a head its junk you can allways repair aluminum.[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img][img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_spongebob.gif[/img]

If this were 30 years ago, I'de say the 351C in a heartbeat. But the points already brought up aout bufget, parts availability, and the greater selection of aftermarket parts for the Windsor are all true.

Do what YOU want. It's your car and your money, but you may be able to make more power for less $$$ with the 351W especially if you build a 393 or 408 stroker out of it.

Like I said it's your car and your money; do what you want. Just think about what you can afford reasonably too.

Now if you stumble across a bunch of 351C parts cheap then grab them while you can and laugh all the way to the bank.
[addsig]

I have a 302 Clevor setup in my car right now. It's a '69 Mustang with a 5.0L roller block topped with 2V heads and an old B&A Track Boss intake. Random Man, I used headers designed for a 2V cleveland, and I had to slightly dimple one header tube(maybe 1/8&quot[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] to clear. Other than that, they work fine. I have the cheapies from Hedman. Good luck finding an intake though! Luckily, my brother bought this one way back when they first came out. He's got a set of JBA headers to fit a 302 Clevor into a Fox body Mustang if anyone is interested![img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

thanks fore the input guys.
wow am i suprised not more votes fore the windsor.

question is there a better year fore the cleveland.
i allways thought it was 70.
but i know where there is a couple 73s also.

thanks again guys

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On 2005-03-10 01:32, blown33 wrote:
you cleavland guys forget it will make more power in stock form but wont last as long i know this from doing both engines the cleav. to make dependable power takes a lot of machine work and mods not to mention the parts avalibity they dont fall out of trees and parts are more than 30% more to buy including special size valves pistons ect. and they have serios oiling troubles.thats my o2 i have both motors for the money the windsor is better also the block gives up at around 600 hp the windsor will go 1000 hp with a 69 block do the math now if you just 13.00 second car it will do also remember if you hurt a head its junk you can allways repair aluminum.[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img][img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_spongebob.gif[/img]
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OK - now you've gone and done it...[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
I hate to bust your bubble, but...

The parts do NOT cost 30% more. Go grab the latest Summit catalog - you'll see that a set of forged pistons is $30 CHEAPER for a 351C than for a 351W. When I built this motor, I did a full spreadsheet of costs for a 351C vs a 351W. Guess what - the cost was nearly the same, with the C having the slight edge on the cylinder heads (reworked stockers vs new aluminium). To build the shortblock the costs are virtually identical.

As for oil problems - that's old rumor and bull****. See people racing the 429/460s? All day long. Hear people talking about oiling problems with the 429/460? No? Guess what - the 429/460 has the same oiling setup as the 351C, 351M and 400. You want a motor with oiling problems, go look at a small block Mopar. My oiling mods consist of a nice Milodon pan, a regular Melling HV pump and carefull assembly. Note the motor has close to 850 runs hitting 6000~6500 RPM twice per run. And ZERO change in oil pressure over the current life of the motor.

Mine makes 400HP with 2V heads, a little home porting, a mild 226/230 cam and 9.3:1 compression. There's 351Cs with a lot more power than mine and no special maching necessary. Ask kidv about that.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ckelly on 3/11/05 8:46am ]</font>

I like the Windsor they oil better than a Cleveland and are much more compact w/ a flooded aftermarket for performance goodies. Plus I named my dog Windsor, It just sounded better than calling him Cleveland!

Both engines have great potential. I used the Windsor due to it takes up less space in the engine compartment and the availibilty for parts since it was in production for more than five years. The Windsor also shares common parts w/ it's little brother's of the Windsor family.

FWIW - it's a lot easier to get the headers on and off my 351C than it was to work the headers on the 351W that was in the Mustang. The C has a shorter deck and the exhaust ports point down, instead of pointing at the shock tower like the other small blocks. I think the C still ends up a hair wider because of the big square heads.

I've been waiting for the weight thing, so I'll shoot that down now. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] The W and the C weight the same. And the 400 only weighs about 50 lbs more than a 351C.