I need help - badly.

I'd really appreciate any help someone could offer on my "troublesome trauma." You have no idea how much I've tried to solve these problems.

I love cars and know enough to be dangerous. I'm not a carburetor wizard by no means. I'm not novice but I can admit defeat.

Sorry for a long story but I don't know how else to explain this one......

My engine is a 351C 2V with a 2100 carburetor in a 1970-1/2 Falcon (based on the 1970 Torino)... Or it could be a 2150 carb. I can't remember distinctly because it's been too long since I've worked on it b/c of other big projects. The car was a Christmas gift from the wife last year. Once started, the car runs great. I mean, REALLY WELL. It is still all stock (or OE replacement parts). Getting it started, though, is a challenge.

I have to use "Starting Fluid" to get it started when it is cold. Once it is started, I can shut it off and it will fire right back up.

Once cold again, I've got to use Starting Fluid again.

So I pulled the carburetor off and commenced my first carb rebuild. It was actually quite easy and I found SEVERAL things that were OBVIOUSLY incorrect.

The float was missing the pin connecting to the needle valve - making the valve disabled and always down (when the float drops, the valve is pulled up by the pin). The float was also not adjusted right. It was obviously "gunked" up pretty badly. And I suspected the accelerator pump diaphragm might have been bad.

So I cleaned the carb up really good, completed the rebuild step-by-step and all was pretty easy UNTIL it came time for the choke/choke adjustment(s).

So I figured I'd put the carb back on and see if I could figure the choke out as I went.

That's when I realized I have NO IDEA how to adjust the choke properly. The instructions provided just do not make sense to me. I've tried 2 other versions of choke adjustment instructions... And all three are like Greek to me.

Here's what happened when I tried to start the car:

Car is STILL difficult to start. Fuel pump seems to work. Maybe it is weak?

Used Starter Fluid and it started but it only runs for 20 seconds before cutting out (probably because the choke does not open now b/c I have it all wrong).

During that 20 seconds that it runs, it has an INCREDIBLY fast idle (like 3000 RPM but that's a guess b/c I have no tach). So I've obviously got the idle adjustment screws WAY out of whack but I can't keep it running long enough to play around with them. And I can't keep it running long enough to adjust the mixture screws either. One last thing that I've noticed and don't know how big a part this plays is what I believe to be some kind of vacuum line from the intake manifold that connects to the choke housing. It is metal tubing and is kinked where it bends. The kink is sufficient enough where the line may be closed. If it is a vacuum line, then it may not be able to pull the vacuum now. Is this item important or relevant to some/all of my problems? I'm going to guess it is vital to the choke functioning (but would not cause a difficult cold start). Can I replace the vacuum line without buying a new manifold? Can I splice in rubber hosing? Other?

So there's my lengthy story. Why won't it start cold? How do I adjust the choke? Any tips on idle adjustment?

I didn't make things any better by rebuilding the carb - only worse. I can put a new carb on it but I'm sure I'll have to make adjustments on it too...... And don't know how. So why make a $100 investment and have the car still not start properly? Either way, I need to learn how to do these things... And will a new carb likely cure the cold start ailment?

IMO. Get yourself an aftermarket carb. Since your motor is stock, start out with an Edelbrock Performer. You'll have all the friends and resources in the world (including this site) to help you tune it.

Start here:
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ockCarburetor/

One day you can go here:
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...vate/index.php

PS. this kills me because FordMuscle doesn't receive a dollar of ad support from Edelbrock.

Sounds like your choke is not working properly. It sounds like you have a manual "heat actived" choke. The metal tubing is a choke tube that brings heat to your choke from the exhaust manifold. The heat gradually deactivates the spring in the choke as the car warms up. It has to be attached to the exhaust manifold correctly, but may have worked loose.
I had this setup on my 67 Mustang and got rid of it. You can buy an electric choke that bolts right on and not have to worry about the metal choke tube. Take it off. Or if it is unkinked and long enough, wrap around the exhaust manifold and that will sort of work.
Look at the butterfly of the carb when the engine is cold. It should be almost closed and then open just a crack when you start it. It should stay closed for a while and gradually open when the car is warmed up. You need a shop manual for your car, it explains this and other little things in detail. It also covers every function of the car. Worth the $35 investment. Look on eBay for the shop manual. Parts store should have an electric choke for less than 20 bucks.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 67VertMustang on 10/27/06 1:40am ]</font>

You don,t need starting fluid if your accellerator pump and choke is working correctly. Just pump the throttle once or twice to spray some gas in and the choke + fast idle cam will reset itself if motor is cold.

That's just it.......... the choke is NOT working properly.

That much I know...... and I can't adjust it easily.

I am probably going to put another carb on it.

Once I start refurbishing it, it will become a resto/mod. So I'll put a different intake and carb on it anyhow.......

I appreciate everyone's response. Keep them coming!

Here's a few tips. First of all I agree with the posts above. You eventually should remove the black cap on the carb and replace it with an electric one. You can rob one from a later model 2V Ford.
And I certainly agree with the other posts.....no starting fluid.
First of all press the accelerator to the floor and release. The choke butterfly should slam shut. On the black cap there is an arrow indicating rich and lean. There is a notch on the black cap and a number of notches on the choke housing. Index the black cap notch to the longer one in the middle. You can adjust rich or lean later. This will get the car started.

Now...before you start the car note that there is a screw on the passenger side of the carb kinda at the right rear (not the one going straight down through the plastic cam). Back that off as that is your fast idle screw and you stated that it screams. Once your satisfied that you've backed off the fast idle screw sufficently, move to the next step.

Car still isn't started. Assuming that there isn't a choke pulloff on the right rear of the carb gently open the choke butterfly a tad with your finger and then open the throttle a tad while still holding the choke open.
The white plastic cam on the passenger side should drop. The fast idle screw should now be in line with a 'V' stamped on the passenger side of the throttle shaft. If it isn't, then screw that hex screw (1/4 socket i believe) a turn or so one way and repeat the step above with holding the choke open and you'll see which way you have to go to align that V notch.

Certainly you won't be able to adjust the mixture screws until you get that idle down to @650 in drive making certain that the carb is off the fast idle and the choke must be completely open .

As far as the tubes go there are two. The first one is a short rubber hose that attaches to the airhorn of the carb. You'll see a short pipe sticking out on the right rear of the carb. This hose joins to a metal pipe that goes down to the right exhaust manifold fitting. Then comes back up as a steel line wrapped in heat insulation and via a fitting screws onto the choke housing. Where it screws onto the choke housing there is a small amount of vacuum which sucks warm air via this pipe from the airhorn of the carb through the manifold and eventually to the choke housing to heat up that bimetallic coil inside that cap. As the coil unwinds with the heat it is connected to the choke linkage and caused the choke rod to move and the choke butterfly to open.

Now the 'amount' of tension you put on that black cap dictates the 'rate' at which the coil unwinds and of course the 'rate' at which it sets the choke back on.
Ever been in one of these fords that stop for a few minutes and upon restarting the engine it goes back immediately on fast idle? Thats due to a setting on the cap that is too rich.

Try that and lets's see what happens. I'm sure there's a ton of help on this forum to get you up and running without spending a bunch of money on a new carb that you will have to eventually set up as well.

Hope this helps........John

Good shot admin - he's running a 2V intake and you told him to go buy a 4V carb. If he can't work a 2100, a nice fancy Ed won't help things any. Plus the problems with fuel line connections, linkage, etc. Brilliant suggestion.

Go back a read the instructions for the kit. The choke is not any more complicated than anything else on the carb. Make sure that the bimetal spring is engaged on the tang that connects the linkage to the choke plate - it's inside the black cup. Now turn the choke so the little mark on the housing lines up about two marks on the RICH side. That should close the plate. Check the choke plate opening at full throttle and adjust per the kit instructions.

You will need to set the fast idle to specs once you get it running. About 1500~2000, somewhere in there. It's common to have it running too fast if someone else messed with it to cover some other fault.

The copper tube that connects to the choke housing should come from a heat stove on the stock intake. You can repair it with any copper pipe of similar size. It pulls heat into the housing to warm the bimetal spring, which opens the choke plate.

It's worked well on millions of cars, no need to chunk it and go buy something else. If you prefer not to replumb the heat stove, then you'll need to hunt a choke housing with an electric bimetal spring.

After that, to start the car press the pedal to the floor twice and release, then crank. If the accel pump is working properly is will start right off. Check by holding the choke plate open and moving the linkage by hand - there should be a squirt from the pump nozzles just as soon as the linkage moves.

_________________

1967 Falcon 4 door w/351C - Owner built, owner abused.
70 Mustang 302 / 06 Ranger, 04 SuperCrew parts hauler
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ckelly on 10/27/06 2:59am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ckelly on 10/27/06 3:03am ]</font>

In terms of online support, documentation, available tuning kits, and number of people using those Edelbrock Performers... I believe you can become more "tuned in" with carburetor tuning owning the EDL.

Yes, you'll have to use a 4V intake. A nice upgrade.

Either way, working with the 2V can be fine too. A lot of guys will respect you for running it.[img]/forums/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
[addsig]

Lodewijk,

Do this:

#1: Loosen screws on choke cover.

#2: Remove choke cover and make sure that the coil spring end is in the forked slot provided for it or behind the armature that needs closing when cold, so, that when the spring cools (shrinks inwards on it's self) it moves the linkage in the proper direction.

#3: Snug down the screws after assuring yourself all is in order and at normal mid 70's temperature range rotate choke cap until the flap is about 1/4" to 3/8" open, (on a cold engine) make sure to work the throttle once while adjusting the flap so that the high idle cam is allowing a correct setting.

#4: Make sure that the High Idle cam set screw is NOT touching the cam at this point. Back it off if necessary, becasue the choke is not on at this point.

#5: Screw in your AF mixture screws all the way and then back out 2 full turns and then stop playing with then for the moment.

#6: Move to the other side of the carb and retract the idle set screw until it is not touching the throttle.

#7: Get a flashlight and peek into the carb and then adjust the idle set screw while watching the butterflies. Screw it inwards to open the throttle about the thickness of the thin side of a match or a tiny bit less. (this will give you about 1,200 rpm's give or take at idle)

#8: Time to start the car and adjust everything:

#9: Once running (the car SHOULD have started with no more than 3 depressions of the foot feed if the carb was full of fuel) Proceed to set emergency brake, then go to the carb.

#10: Adjust idle down to a smooth 600 to 800 rpm's and guessing is fine here if you have no tach. (use Idle set screw for this) Then wait until the car is fully warmed up.

#11: Go to the AF mixture screws, right bank first (that's my peference) Slowly turn in the screw until you get a rough idle then come back out until it's smoothe and no further. Repeat that proceedure with the left screw.

#12: Slow down the idle on the car some more, or until you think you're at about 650 to 700 rpm's. Then repeat the AF mixture screw adjustments, this time going to the left side first then the right.

#13: ????Setting cold Idle cam????


Knowing where you live will greatly help me assist you in setting the cold Idle cam, and allow me to complete this post.

I hope that what I have said so far is not confusing. The advice given thus far is good but a little foggy for someone not wanting to mod his engine at the moment, but only to get it running decent...


Welcome to the board!

V/R

FEandGoingBroke

[addsig]

nothing is confusing so far...

most is stuff I tried to do already..... but the previous owner has rigged alot of stuff on this carb. Some of it belongs but is bent..... some if is like coat-hanger mechanics.....

I'm trying to get it right......

Anyhow I live in Ohio... we get all 4 seasons and it is usually about 63 (high) here right now. But it's been about 45 (high) lately.