AFR 165 or 185's for a 289?

I'm thinking seriously about dumping my iron Ford GT40's for a pair of AFR 165 or 185's. Given my specs the AFR tech said to go with the 165's and just switch to a 1.7 rocker but I'm wondering if 185's might be better for me, especially if I go bigger on the cam and carb set up. The car is a daily driver now but in a couple of months (after I do the motor work) it'll be a weekend toy.

My set up looks like this:

Edlebrock Performer RPM w/600 vacuum dual feed Holley
Cam is a 216/.484 Crane Energizer.
Iron GT40 heads
9.6:1 forged pistons (flat top with fly cuts)
Hooker Super Comp headers
C4 w/3000 stall TCI converter
3.50 TracLoc

According to the guy at Superior Automotive I'm putting out roughly 300HP at the crank. I'd like to see somewhere in the neighborhood of 400-450 HP.

As I said, I have no problem swapping the carb and cam if needed. I'd like to get as much out of the motor as I can without changing the pistons as I need to run pump gas. Otherwise I'm open to some changes as long as they don't get pricey.

Thanks!

As long as your pistons have big enough reliefs for the 2.02 valves, I'd say just get the 185s. Most comparisons I've seen show them outpowering the 165 on even fairly mild combos, and I don't think the smaller ports on the 165s would make that big of a difference on the torque and streetability. On the other hand, if your pistons only have room for 1.92 valves, then you'll still be more than happy with what the 165s give you over your GT40s.

Last year I did a nice 302 road race type engine. It made 468 HP with the LITTLE 165 heads. There is a BIG misconception about what the bigger heads will do. MOST people have it all wrong. You need the 165 heads for your engine.

JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

Originally Posted by BIGJOE

Last year I did a nice 302 road race type engine. It made 468 HP with the LITTLE 165 heads. There is a BIG misconception about what the bigger heads will do. MOST people have it all wrong. You need the 165 heads for your engine.

JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

I could not agree with Joe more!

Those 165 Competition heads would be excellent as well for your 289.

I have a bigger carb and cam and 165 is what I wanted. Let me warn you of a problem. My TRW forged pistons are over 30 years old but my tired 289 still runs great. My engine actually was running "big" Chevy valves in the day and pushed a 65 falcon to low 13's. The pistons looked like the valve reliefs were opened with a dremel moto tool. The last heads on the car were E7's I figured no problem with the 165's. The exhaust valves had zero clearance with a Lunati VooDoo. Fairly mild cam, I think the 6200. I looked at the Isky fly cutting tool and tried to make my own. Opened the eybrow on both valves. Still no clearance. I thought about pulling it to use a 5.0. I ended up making tools to cut bigger reliefs on the car. I am just ready to check valve clearance again. I think it is going to work. With my old pistons the larger valves would probably be too much. With only a 289 the 165's are perfect. If you have newer pistons you may be OK. I could post a picture if you are able yo look at yours.

The pistons are Federal Mogul Forged Aluminum Pistons (9.62:1 compression) that were purchased and installed when I built the motor about 7 years ago. I have a photo of them somewhere. I can find it and add it here if needed.

Although it sounds like the 165's are my best option at this point.

Would I be better off swapping the cam for something bigger or going with the 1.7 rockers? Obviously that's the easier route.

Do you think my carb is the right one or should I look at going up to a 650 or 700 CFM. Mine was tweaked during the dyno tuning (jet changes, diaphram mods, choke removal, etc) but a 600 is still a 600 so I don't want to be under carb'd. I assume that a vacuum secondary is the right way to go still, right?

I just want to do this right.

Thanks again for all your help!

The following combo would be a nice healthy combo for you:
AFR 165's
650cfm carb
XE268(224/230 @.050) or the XE274H cam (230/236 @.050)
Having the 1.6 roller rocker have better dead on geometry than the 1.7's.

BigJoe,

I'm curious about the 468 HP small block that you mentioned. Was it a high compression motor with a large cam and all that?

I've seen AFR's website, testimonials and magazine articals that have some pretty stout small block motors that made numbers similar to what you made with your motor and with cams and compressions not much bigger than I'm running now.

If I stick with the cam I'm running and add the 1.7's (and bigger carb if needed) what kind of HP number would you guess-timate I'd be looking at?

If 400+ HP is not out of the question I'd be pretty happy with that, but a little more would be cool too.

Thanks!

I am switching to a 670 from a 570 Holley to handle the extra air flow. You can always swap the carb later so do what you want inside first. At the time I bought my Lunati it was leading edge. Probably years after the XE design. If the Crane is an older design I would be tempted to dump it. If you want someone to know you have a big cam I would use Comp cams. They advertise the fact. If you want to Surprise people with how powerful your mild engine is go VooDoo. The XE and VooDoo are both good street cams. You will need new rockers so get the 1.6 and the cam you want. If you change cams in the future the 1.6 gives more options. AFR's site shows some 400 HP articles that used very mild cams. I need to go check valve clearance...later

Just my opinion but I would run twisted wedge heads on a 289, more powerful than 165's all the way around, maybe 8-10 hp shy of 185's at peak but better valve clearance with the 202's and low and mid lift flow is much better than either 165 or 185 which will keep low end tq and hp, look on afr's own website and look into 5.0 head shootout group 2 and look at ALL the #'s. Another thing is ford performance souloutions still sells TW heads for 995.00 and if you grow in displacement theres plenty of room on TW heads, I had mine ported to 205cc for my 408 stroker, I dont think you can do that with a 165 or 185. Just my $0.02