429 and top loader 4 speed conversion

Hello all,
Could someone point me in the direction of where I might find information about installing a small shaft top loader behind a 429/460. I have searched the site and haven't found anything stating what parts to use. I realize a large input shaft top loader is what came behind most 429/460's. I need to find out what bell housing, clutch, and flywheel to use. I realize there are aftermarket bell housing on the market, but they are pricey!! Also, I believe a 12" clutch came behind the 429/460's and I haven't been able to find anything but an 11" clutch for the small input tranny. I would also like to use a hydraulic clutch setup if at all possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Too many different trans combos to know what you need. Post up the trans id tag.

I assume that by small shaft, you mean the small 1 1/16" diameter input shafted toploader found behind a small block. If so, don't bother as that shaft is really not strong enough to be used behind a reasonably built 429. The shaft/bearing retainer can be replaced with the larger BB 1 3/8" shaft and matching retainer. Many people don't realize that the 429/460 Lima motors use the same length input shaft as a small block. It would look similar to the TOP photo shown below, but with a larger diameter:



Another problem that you might not be aware of is that you will need a narrower clutch fork that will work with your 429/460 bellhousing.

Ultimately, IMHO, you will have to jump through too many hoops in order to make your small input tranny function behind your big motor. Do the input shaft swap and find the appropriate parts that the factory used for the remainder of the swap.

Yes I was referring to the 1 1/16" input shaft. I don't have my tranny with me at the moment, but if my memory serves me correctly, the case is from a 70' Mustang and the tail housing is from a 66' Fairlane. Does the entire tranny have to be disassembled to replace the input shaft with the 1 3/8" shaft? Should I assume that the narrower clutch fork is what came stock behind the 429/460's?

i took a small input toploader and changed the input to the 1.375" and put it behind a powerful 460 !! use the torino or 69 mustang big input throwout fork and a lakewood bell housing. dan williams toploaders and david key toploaders sell these input shafts for the 2.78 and 2.32 ratios. they have the long pilot snout so all you gotta do is change the input shaft and front bearing retainer. i have used inputs form both these guys and they are both good, oh yeah you will need to change the main shaft from 28 spline to the 31 spline one cause the 28 spline will twist behind the 429. you will also need the 31 spline tail housing or have the one you got machined for the bigger mainshaft. all the gears and rest of the inner workings are the same.you have to take the trans apart to replace either parts and i highly suggest rebuilding at that time. you will need a 429/460 neutral/internal balanced flywheel and i dont use hyd. release bearing i use stock linkage. use a hays or mccleod long style pp and a sprung hub disc for the street. i also use a close ratio toploader with the big input/output in my 65 stang with a 392W,hays 20 pound steel flywheel,hays organic sprung disc,hays 2400 pound pp,custom made fork to use big input behind small block.my trans Pictures by supershifter2 - Photobucket

Originally Posted by bwebb

Yes I was referring to the 1 1/16" input shaft. I don't have my tranny with me at the moment, but if my memory serves me correctly, the case is from a 70' Mustang and the tail housing is from a 66' Fairlane. Does the entire tranny have to be disassembled to replace the input shaft with the 1 3/8" shaft? Should I assume that the narrower clutch fork is what came stock behind the 429/460's?

If you are mechanically inclined, the input can be changed without a total disassembly:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/tra...placement.html

Other than a possible gear ratio difference, all internal parts are interchangeable amongst the different 64-73 Ford toploaders.

As mentioned by shiftthis, it is also best to change the output shaft/tailhousing to make it a 31 spline unit. I had lots of problem with the skinny input shaft, but none with the output shaft. Not wanting to have an issue down the road, I saved up some $$ and made my toploader 100% big block comparable. It has held up good since then at the strip.

I have detailed most of my toploader exploits on this site, many with pics. If interested, do an advance search for "toploader" here under my user name.

Wow!! And the cost continues to climb, but that is all part of hot rodding! Is there a factory bell housing and flywheel that will work; such as a 351M/400 bell housing from a truck? I'm trying to do this on a budget, and it is sounding like I just need to forget converting to a 4 speed and keep what I have. The reason I was asking about the hydraulic clutch setup is because I don't have stock clutch linkage. My car is a 66' GTA and I would like to slam a few gears since I have the top loader. Your info is very helpful and much appreciated. Oh yes, my engine is stock and will be for a while!!

My 1967 Fairlane GT had the small intake clutch. Must have been popular at the time. It had a 11 1/2 inch diameter friction disk, and was the Exception to normal per the parts books.

Later models used the Model A sized 1 3/8" inch diameter input shaft. But still had the 11 1/2 inch diameter friction disk.

They also had two styles of thrust bearings for the counter shaft. One of plastic and one of steel/brass. Either way you need to remove near all of the gearbox and internals to fix it. Find an illustrated manual too.



Wm.

do not use the truck bell housing !! it is a little bit deeper and the input shaft will not hit the pilot bushing hole and trans damage will occur ! the transmission in the truck has a longer input shaft. a 351m-400 and 429-460 CAR bellhousing is what you need. none of this is gonna be cheap. your probably looking at $700-$800 to do the trans unless you do it yourself and toploaders are real easy to take apart and put back together.

Thanks, that helps alot. But what cars came with a 351m-400 with a manual trans? I can't think of any right off! Next order of business. What about clutch linkage? I have none. All I have is pedels right now! I would really like to steer away from stock type linkage!