Shorty cast iron header removal

This may be a day late but the starter should drop out without removing the mainfold as was said before. I just did this on a 62 g code last month. You have to drop the idler arm down and your all set. Removing the two bolts in the frame should get you there.

Originally Posted by blueoval67

This may be a day late but the starter should drop out without removing the mainfold as was said before. I just did this on a 62 g code last month. You have to drop the idler arm down and your all set. Removing the two bolts in the frame should get you there.

Hey BO,
The big bug-a-boo glitch that prevents this was listed as being the "long Bendix unit" on the starter, but Ms. American has THAT exact Bendix, and it STILL comes out by just removing the Idler Arm Bracket.

BUT I have to say that taking off the Shorty Header is just SOOOOO much FUN that I think Mr. DT should do it just for kicks, even if he gets the starter out without HAVING to do it!

I know, I wouldn't trade the experience for all the cow-bell you could put in a thimble.

JC

JC --you are a cruel cruel man --

Originally Posted by Rich27028

JC --you are a cruel cruel man --

Hey my DEAR Mr. DH,
It was inadvertent, I assure you!

You know, Richard, Sometimes you just CRACK me up!

JC

Yesterday, I finished removing a broken off bolt on the top of number five cylinder. It was broken off flush to the cylinder head and had been that way for a long time before I got the car. Drilling a pilot hole is tough so this is what I used. I have a Dremel tool with an angle head attachment. I used this bit from Dremel to hog out the bolt and save the threads in the cylinder head.

9906 Tungsten Carbide Cutter / Model: 9906


This engine has never been apart and all the bolts are original with the tabs bent over the bolt heads. I also soaked all the bolts with PB Blaster for a week. The others all came out with a 9/16 end wrench, and/or breaker bar and socket (Snap-on) I recommend a high quality six point end wrench if possible but a 12 point will work. If using a breaker bar and socket, try a 3/8" size breaker bar first. The 1/2'' breaker bar is too powerful and doesn't give you the "feel" before twisting the bolt. I started by tightening the bolt first and the loosening in very small increments until it started to move. Then loosening maybe a 1/4 turn and back again until it loosens enough to thread all the way out. Low end hand wrenches are trouble when it comes to this job. Use Craftsman or better for the best luck as cheapo wrenches/sockets will be your worst enemy in this. Sears used to or still does make a lower grade of hand tools, branded as Sears, make sure it is a Craftsman wrench.Take your time with the Dremel bit for a broken a bolt being careful to not damage the threads in the head. Worse case scenario if the threads are ruined and I have seen people do this on all the upper row of manifold bolt holes. They hog out the threads and install grade 8 bolts and nuts on the up side to tighten the manifold. This does mean a small amount of grinding the upper head side area around some the holes so the nut and washer can sit flat. Again, the Dremel is good for this job as well. Hope this helps some.

Mark

Originally Posted by hardfordcore

Yesterday, I finished removing a broken off bolt on the top of number five cylinder. It was broken off flush to the cylinder head and had been that way for a long time before I got the car. Drilling a pilot hole is tough so this is what I used. I have a Dremel tool with an angle head attachment. I used this bit from Dremel to hog out the bolt and save the threads in the cylinder head.

9906 Tungsten Carbide Cutter / Model: 9906


This engine has never been apart and all the bolts are original with the tabs bent over the bolt heads. I also soaked all the bolts with PB Blaster for a week. The others all came out with a 9/16 end wrench, and/or breaker bar and socket (Snap-on) I recommend a high quality six point end wrench if possible but a 12 point will work. If using a breaker bar and socket, try a 3/8" size breaker bar first. The 1/2'' breaker bar is too powerful and doesn't give you the "feel" before twisting the bolt. I started by tightening the bolt first and the loosening in very small increments until it started to move. Then loosening maybe a 1/4 turn and back again until it loosens enough to thread all the way out. Low end hand wrenches are trouble when it comes to this job. Use Craftsman or better for the best luck as cheapo wrenches/sockets will be your worst enemy in this. Sears used to or still does make a lower grade of hand tools, branded as Sears, make sure it is a Craftsman wrench.Take your time with the Dremel bit for a broken a bolt being careful to not damage the threads in the head. Worse case scenario if the threads are ruined and I have seen people do this on all the upper row of manifold bolt holes. They hog out the threads and install grade 8 bolts and nuts on the up side to tighten the manifold. This does mean a small amount of grinding the upper head side area around some the holes so the nut and washer can sit flat. Again, the Dremel is good for this job as well. Hope this helps some. Mark

Hey Mark,
We had almost exactly the same experience, except instead of Number Five breaking, Number One was my assignment. And instead of hogging out the hole, I opted for keeping the threads. I hope you DO realize that holding the manifold on the Number Five Upper Flange with a bolt and nut will cost you 38 points on the Mr. DeadHorse scale!

Anyway, isn't it a relief to have THAT done? Now if it would just get cool again I could risk venturing out and finishing up everything on Ms. American.

Hope you are well.

JC

Hi JC,

I was lucky and saved the threads on the #5 flange this time. I have fought this battle on other vehicles and lost once on the #2 cylinder of my F100 with Heddman headers. A nut and bolt reside there now holding the header with Mr.Gasket soft copper gaskets. I am still deciding on what headers to use on the Galaxie, probably Sanderson or a set of 65 Ford FE cast iron shorties if they turn up. On the early Ford starters that engage the ring gear from the rear and are so darn heavy, I have a 57 Tbird 312 Yblock which the previous owner had starting problems with and wore some of the teeth on the ring gear on the back side. Sounded horrific when the starter turned. I used the PowerMaster for that and now the drive engages from the front and it is quiet. To get at the torque converter for ring gear replacement on the Tbird means taking out the engine. Can't get the trans out without removing both the engine and the trans at once. Saved a huge amount of work and cost. BTW, one of these mini starters brands has a mounting boss that is rotatable in order to move the bendix away from the block on certain applications.

Mark

Ok, after about 30 minutes in the garage, i am convinced that the under bolt
on cylinder 3 is the anti-christ. Believe it or not after about 1/2 turn of every
one of the other manifold bolts, they came all the way out by hand. If the
wrench is on from the right I cant get my fingers in far enough between the
header on cylinder 1 and 2 to grab the wrench. If its on from the left, the
starter is in the way. Go figure.

On a side note, while i was under the car this afternoon, I found what looked
like metal shards. Sure enough, it was the teeth off of the starter. 3 of them.

Even wierder, we were told that the cars engine was a 30 over 427 and the
original 406 was long gone so we never really checked. While under the car I
noticed on the engine block "HP" just like the one on the block that we are
set to swap out. Could it be...........

Originally Posted by Death Touch

Ok, after about 30 minutes in the garage, i am convinced that the under bolt on cylinder 3 is the anti-christ.

Hey Mr. DT,
Might I suggest that you give me your address and I'll send you a membership application to the "Under Bolt on Cylinder Three is the Anti-Christ Curse Club"? A membership will entitle you to at least a dozen new and really nasty things to call the little bugger, plus a lifetime membership in the "What am I going to do NOW fellowship".

Believe it or not after about 1/2 turn of every
one of the other manifold bolts, they came all the way out by hand.

In my BEST Asperger-istic tone: "Well if you think THAT'S something, listen to this: I had two of the bottom bolts on the Driver's Side come out all by themselves! Although I don't know WHEN it happened."

If the wrench is on from the right I cant get my fingers in far enough between the header on cylinder 1 and 2 to grab the wrench. If its on from the left, the starter is in the way. Go figure.

It's a Catch-22. If you'd just remove the starter, you could get it off. If you could remove the starter, you wouldn't HAVE to get it off! Have you tried removing the Drag Link Bracket?

The problem that I had with the Bottom Bolt on Number Three is that when I tried to put it back in, it cross threaded! It STILL isn't in, even after attempting to install one of the "Custom-made FE&GB Miracle-Slotted, Self-Tapping Jobbies".

But seriously, a U-Joint 9/16" socket, on an extension with a ratchet, with the front wheels turned all the way one way or another IS able to get on to the head of that bolt.

On a side note, while i was under the car this afternoon, I found what looked like metal shards. Sure enough, it was the teeth off of the starter. 3 of them.

OUCH! When I have things like THAT happen, I usually tell the parts house that it's a good thing that messing with Ms. American is a HOBBY, and that I'm having all kinds of FUN, because if it wasn't, I'd probably scrap this old piece of junk!

Even weirder, we were told that the cars engine was a 30 over 427 and the original 406 was long gone so we never really checked. While under the car I noticed on the engine block "HP" just like the one on the block that we are set to swap out. Could it be...........

Oh DT, don't fret about THAT. the HP on the block is on MOST of them, and has nothing to do with anything that I've been able to figure out. It's like the "352" that's also cast on the block. It's on all of them and doesn't mean squat. I've found letters and numbers all over the FE "P-Code" in the 3.14, and I just consider them like I do the mole on Cindy Crawford's upper lip. A "beauty mark", I think it called.

Anyway, all that's needed is a huge helping of patience with a couple of scoops of love and when the time is right (and not a second sooner) that bolt will come out just as pretty as you please. I'm speaking from experience here.

Hope this finds you doing well, and hanging in there.

JC

Originally Posted by hardfordcore

Hi JC,

Hey HFC,

I was lucky and saved the threads on the #5 flange this time. I have fought this battle on other vehicles and lost once on the #2 cylinder of my F100 with Heddman headers. A nut and bolt reside there now holding the header with Mr.Gasket soft copper gaskets.

I've said this before: THAT upper bolt hole is a "design flaw". Probably the worst of but a few on the FE engine.

If the engineers had just made it a bored hole, and had originally put a bolt and nut there, they would have saved a bundle on machining costs and made it to where if you broke a bolt taking the manifold off, you'd just have to get a new bolt and nut and it would be no big deal. You'd think that "The Better Idea Folks" would have done THAT. "BUT Newooooooooooooooo!" (John Belushi)

I am still deciding on what headers to use on the Galaxie, probably Sanderson or a set of 65 Ford FE cast iron shorties if they turn up. On the early Ford starters that engage the ring gear from the rear and are so darn heavy, I have a 57 Tbird 312 Yblock which the previous owner had starting problems with and wore some of the teeth on the ring gear on the back side. Sounded horrific when the starter turned. I used the PowerMaster for that and now the drive engages from the front and it is quiet. To get at the torque converter for ring gear replacement on the Tbird means taking out the engine. Can't get the trans out without removing both the engine and the trans at once. Saved a huge amount of work and cost. BTW, one of these mini starters brands has a mounting boss that is rotatable in order to move the bendix away from the block on certain applications. Mark

I'm constantly amazed at the range of "fixes", up with which we "Galaxie Enthusiasts" are able to come. Some have come to be so standard that they can almost be considered "stock". But some of them are so ingenious (like having a water bed for a convertible top) that I sometimes just have to go "WOW!" when I finally "grok" what has been done. And then sometimes... The solution is just EXQUISITE. Like finding that special "G" (for Galaxie) spot, and it just make you feel GOOD all over.

I don't know of anything I do that gives me more satisfaction than figuring out how to do something to "git er done".

I'll give you an example that I've got pending right now. You know the little rubber boot that channels fresh air into the Heater/Defroster Unit from the louvers in front of the windshield? Well, in order to install that you have to take out the Glove Box Liner. But even then, you can't get that little accordion pleated boot to stay on the BACK of the flange on the H/D Unit when you try to pull it over the Front of the flange.

Well, I've finally figured out HOW to do that.

I'm going to have to remove the H/D Unit again, and drill three holes: One in back and two on the passenger side of the flange on which the accordion pleated boot fits, and then thread three metal screws just long enough to stick out the other side through those holes from the inside of the flange. That way there will be three little pointy pieces sticking through the outer side of the flange so that when the boot is pulled over the flange from the back, it won't be able to slip off when one pulls the boot over the front of the flange!

It's so simple that I don't know WHY I didn't think of it before I took all the books out of my library to hold the H/D Unit in place so that I could put the bolts on from the engine side of the firewall.

Ingenuity seems to have a way of finding its way into what we're doing. And the combined knowledge and experience evinced here at FMF has so far been equal to the task of keeping these old Gals standing tall, and going strong.

I suspect that every marqe has this kind of thing, but I don't know that THAT is true, because I can't see me doing what I do with Ms. American with the 1981 Z28 Camaro that the company for which I was working gave me as a bonus. That CPOS wasn't worth scrapping when it was NEW!

Anyway, temps are back up into the century zone here for the foreseeable future. So if you'll hang in there, I'll hang in here.

JC