EEC -IV Equiped EDIS-8 Applications

I'm not sure we're talking doing the 4.6 or the 5.0 or what, but the direct answer is yes to both Q's. The caveat with reprogramming the EEC-IV is that some versions that were not intended to control EDIS may not (but likely do) have the onboard chips to do so, and the base parameters (manual/auto, batch/SEFI, etc.) are not reflashable. The 5.0 SEFI engine does not have to be run SEFI, and a batch-fire EEC can serve just as well and do EDIS too if originally set to do that. In any case, the EDIS can be controlled by a separate EIC, whether EEC-batch/SEFI, aftermarket or even if carbureted instead. The MegaJolt Lite Jr. is likely the most popular, at about $160 for a plug-n-play unit, or about $90 for a DIY kit to assemble yourself.

The MJLJ is designed to control EDIS (4/6/8 cylinder) specifically. The envisioned MegaJolt "Sr." is actually to be a full ion-sensing (peak pressure/crank angle detection) system that will make ignition timing child's play compared to the seeming black-art it is now. Anyway, I hope that answers something for you. Whatever your idea is - it sounds fun!

David

Thanks for the insight and your patience.

What is the advantage of EDIS over the earlier DIS in your estimation?

While researching this subject further, I came across this;

Sourced- Ford’s Distributorless EDIS Ignition System

As of now, this system outside of its original OEM setup only works with an aftermarket fuel injection system such as "Speed-Pro". We’re confident it will be adaptable to other aftermarket fuel injection systems and we’re even going to try to run it with the popular A9L ‘89-’93 Mustang EEC-4 computers in the summer 2001.

I am attempting to possibly retro-fit DIS/EDIS to an earlier 5.0L retaining the SEFI over the bank fire. I would like to do it with just FORD componets for cost, easy service and quick replacement parts.

Is there available a replacement part for the distributor to drive the oil pump or must that be fabricated?

This is for a '57 FORD retrofit.

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Thanks for the insight and your patience.

What is the advantage of EDIS over the earlier DIS in your estimation?

NP. EDIS strong points include:

Greater accuracy in spark timing
Higher rpm capability
Full spark energy at all rpms
Zero maintenance system except one plug wire set in the engine's life
Very robust and reliable with no mechanical interaction
Compatible with nearly all brands and types of car engines
EEC or aftermarket controllers with free & simple software/interfaces
58°BTDC to 20°ATDC timing at any rpm and pressures from 0 to 45PSIG
Capable of displaced component locations and 'cleaner' installs
Inexpensive both initially and long term

About the only negatives are the requirement for a crank-mounted toothed wheel, suitable sensor and coil mounting, and a few extra wires to loom around the engine.

I am attempting to possibly retro-fit DIS/EDIS to an earlier 5.0L retaining the SEFI over the bank fire. I would like to do it with just FORD componets for cost, easy service and quick replacement parts.

Retaining SEFI and employing EDIS in one EEC-IV is problematic as SEFI requires a distributor with asymetic vanes to tell the ECU where #1 is. EDIS requires a toothed wheel. Later EEC-V's use the toothed wheel to run EDIS and a cam sensor to tell it where #1 is for SEFI. If EEC-IV is an absolute requirement, then the decision is whether to have it run EDIS and injector batch fire, or run SEFI and distributor ignition. To mix the two would require stand-alone EDIS control.

If emissions testing is a concern in your area, then SEFI would be a favored choice, as the primary reason for SEFI was emissions. If driveability and power are primary, then either batch or SEFI will fill the bill with generally unnoticeable change in economy when properly tuned. If no tuning requirement for peak emissions, economy, driveability or performance is desired, then retaining all the stock hardware would have greater weight. Here is a PDF file of a general overview of EEC-IV by Tom Cloud that hits the high points.

Is there available a replacement part for the distributor to drive the oil pump or must that be fabricated?

To your other question, if deleting the distributor, either a modified (cut-down) stock distributor or a 'distributor plug' such as the later Explorer cam sensor or aftermarket versions would do to fill the hole and drive the oil pump while ignoring the sensor inside. The pic below is a short dual-bushing '69 diz, alongside a cut '70+ diz that retains the single stock bushing and is simple to do. The template above it is to allow it to do double-duty as a TDC indicator for each cylinder, that I had etched into a plate at the trophy shop. To do a really short plug like the one on the right is doable on a lathe and requires counter-boring and shaft turning to fit a pair of sealed roller bearings in each end for shaft support.

David

As usual, a most concise and knowledgeable answer.

I thank you for explaining all to me. You have saved me much research.

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I am attempting to possibly retro-fit DIS/EDIS to an earlier 5.0L retaining the SEFI over the bank fire. I would like to do it with just FORD componets for cost, easy service and quick replacement parts.

Did u get news?

Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
I am attempting to possibly retro-fit DIS/EDIS to an earlier 5.0L retaining the SEFI over the bank fire. I would like to do it with just FORD componets for cost, easy service and quick replacement parts.

Originally Posted by Sponge

Did u get news?

I'm interested of this too, has someone make/tested edis-8 to work example with a9l eec-4?

Originally Posted by koppa

I'm interested of this too, has someone make/tested edis-8 to work example with a9l eec-4?

No, as I tried to explain above, the A9L (and any other EEC-IV that uses a distributor) needs a different triggering signal for SEFI than EDIS uses. A9L uses 8 asymetric signals every 720º and EDIS uses 36-1 tooth pulses every 360º. This changed in EEC-V, so both SEFI and EDIS could use 36-1 and a cam signal, still a bit different than either previous system.

If you wanted SEFI and EDIS with A9L you would need to add an EDIS controller to make both work as I posted earlier. The distributor would only be used to send signals to the A9L, not to handle any spark. EDIS would do that separately. So, although it can be done, it complicates the system, adds more stuff and still leaves the distributor there. Unless you have a strong need for EDIS to be added (like 20+ pounds of boost at 7500 rpm), the stock TFI ignition would be simpler and sufficient.

David

Great discussion! I'm wanting to add a MAF based SEFI with no dizzy system to a 69 mustang with a 500 hp 351/393-C motor. Mas-Flo-Systems makes very pricy bolt-and-go MAF EFI (not sure if its SEFI) kit however it must use a dizzy!

So back to DIY. I want to retain the shaker hood scoop. So thinking about using Mass-Flo System (MFS) mass-air meter and GM based 1000 CMF throttle body, an Edelbrock Performer manifold (welded EFI bings), MFS #30 injectors, and fuel rails. Now I need a ECM for EFI and SEFI and from what I gleen from this discussion a Ford OEM EEC-V could do both? Only it seems EEC-V is not as desireable (perhaps COP is an issue) as the older EEC-IV A9L EDIS-8???? If I go EEC-IV EDIS-8 how would I trigger the SEFI? Assuming I use megasquirt for the EDIS unit off the 36-1 tooth gear do I still need some type of dizzy for the SEFI????? Was there ever a Ford EEC-IV SEFI system or were all EEC-IV batch EFI?

Originally Posted by airrocket

Great discussion! I'm wanting to add a MAF based SEFI with no dizzy system to a 69 mustang with a 500 hp 351/393-C motor.

Welcome! I'm glad you're enjoying it. Why do you think you want SEFI? Or MAF? Not hammering you - just trying to get a handle on where you're coming from on your project. Reality and theory often butt heads in EFI, and the real-world pro's and con's of various systems often give us surprising answers to questions about specific applications.

David

For me personally carbs and dizzies imply "antiquated tech". That's why I sold my classic stang I wanted to shed the classic can't-mess-with-it constraints and embrace the future "restomod" era. I've always seen true "hot rodders" as intelligent, creative, resourceful, independent individuals. So for me carbs and dizzies no-longer prosonify the true hot rod spirit. My original plan was to use micro-turbine/electric propulsion. However given the recent decline in gas prices I decided to give the IC brayton cycle one more try. So my next project (resto-mod dynacorn 69 stang) must embrace 21st tech and challenge both mind and wrench hand. I'm also an automotive mechanical/manufacturing engineer (Clevite bearings) so I am very much aware of LE automotive tech. Obama and the new DEM administration will be pushing new emission and mpg standards on society soon. And I doubt gas prices will stay below $2 gallon forever. Hot rodders must adapt to survive.
I've set these goals.
Wide torque band
500 hp
30 mpg (highway) 14 mpg (city)
EPA approved by passing local emission std.
My strategy to achieve that is SEFI, programable electronic ignition, split-duration cam, reduction of parasitic loss with the use of exhaust thermoelectric generator, electric water pump, electric fans and finally HFI (hydrogen fuel injection) to enhance fuel burn rate, lean cruise, and reduce exhaust emissions. MAF based EFI appears to be more intuative, self regulating, and consistant than MAP which can be effected my CAM timing, modifications and other fluctations. I realize that at higher rpms SEFI becomes similar to bank or batch injection. Its the lowr pm city conditions where I see SEFI as having a mpg edge.

Given all this a MegaSqruit based system would probably suit my needs best. However I am just at the novice stage of the EFI learning curve. So I must walk before I can run and except for the dizzy issue the mass-flo-system EFI looked like a good way to start getting my feet wet. Or I could just dive in and sink or swim?

So with all that to digest does an EEC-IV/EDIS-8 or EEC-V based system have anything to offer me? I'd like to avoid COP if possible due to structural support of the plug coil and head valve cover design issues on older engines.

I'm thinking I've seen a very low profile dizzy unit with no plug wires that functions as cam timing sensor only. If so that could possibly drive the SEFI EEC-IV and then a 36-1 crank gear to dive a megasquirt for ignition or vise verse. Or perhaps a Megasqruit can handle both SEFI and EDIS?