EEC -IV Equiped EDIS-8 Applications

Originally Posted by PSIG

No, the cam sensor was introduced with EEC-V to allow sequential injection and modified EDIS scheme with EDIS built directly into the EEC with no stand-alone module. EEC-IV runs the EDIS module strictly from the 36-1 crankshaft trigger wheel and sensor, like the diagram posted earlier.

David

For the sake of clarity, all 4.6L EEC-IVs w/EDIS use a Cam Position Sensor (CID/CMP), located at front of L/Head; having nothing to do with EDIS, but used to maintain SFI. (see Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control, pages 337, 339 and 340)

That's just want I was getting ready to post. I've been wiring, building and tuning swaps like this for 20 years now and I've never put together any Ford EFI system without the cam sensor. That is one of the major sensor needed to make any of these systems work including EDIS. I just finished up another Mark 8 swap for someone and I used this sensor because you have to.

The first EDIS for the V8 was in 91 for the Lincoln Town Car. Let me note that this was only for the Modular 4.6 V8s. In 92 the Crown Vics also got it. In 93 the Mark 8 came out with the DOHC 4.6 with the same system. In 94 the Tbird / Cougar got the system. These were all EEC IV by the way with the following exception. 94 - 95 Crown Vics and Tbird / Cougar were actually EEC Vs with OBD II. The EDIS went away in 96 for all FLM vehicles at least the V8s that I know of. Every single one of these has a cam sensor as they do today. The cam sensor did not come out in 96 for the EEC V or OBD II. Now from 91 - 95 the cam sensor was call the cylinder identification sensor vice cam sensor. On these 4.6s it is located in the front timing chain cover on the driver’s side (left bank) cam.

This system is more accurate than the typical distributor setup of say the pushrod 5.0s due to the crank and cam pickups vice depending on the distributor. My personal preference would be a full EEC V setup though. Because of my profession as a custom tuner I get a lot of these EDIS systems in that people want to make some serious power with or just much better fuel economy and drivability. The EDIS system is shaky when it comes to trying to pull data out from it for data logging. The EEC IVs there's very little support unless you have the bucks for Fords data logging equipment. The EEC Vs such as the Tbirds or CVs you can use aftermarket data logging equipment but the data strings are very jumpy or shaky and the processor speeds are so slow you can't really get real time data. So from a tuner's stand point these systems are hated. For someone just wanting to do a swap and doesn't care how the vehicle runs then they are ok.

I've even swapped my personal 95 Mark 8 over to an EEC V system. When I did this I picked up another 40 hp with the ability to fully tune and data log over the old EEC IV.

There was someone here that wants to dump their EEC V setup for the EDIS and I'm not understanding why they or someone would want to do this. By the way, you can't remove the cam sensor, it has to be there to run the engine. The cam sensor is used to tell the EEC when to apply the spark and open the injector for each cylinder. Whereas the crank sensor is used for timing and why you can use an adjustable timing device at the crank to change your timing. The schematic that was posted on the first page is just the EDIS and doesn't show the whole picture.

Now if you went to batch fire you would not need a cam sensor. But that again brings up the question of why??? If you are going to go to the trouble of installing an EFI system you might as well use it to your benifit and not do it half way. Batch fire is not economical nor will you get any real performance out of it compared to the SFI. There's no aftermarket support for the old Ford stuff and so you would be stuck with how it runs no matter what you did.

Originally Posted by 5LitreCat

For the sake of clarity...

Originally Posted by SnakedMark8

That's just want I was getting ready to post. ...

I appreciate the clarifications; I didn't realize my verbiage was so confusing. I'll have to work on that. Hopefully it will help others understand what's going on in these magic boxes and become more comfortable with using them.

This does bring me back to the points I made earlier in this thread, and that is these are proprietary systems and both primitive and archaic by modern standards. Whether EEC-IV or V or even VI - they are fine for their original applications but are relative hacks in custom installs with very limited functions relative to aftermarket systems. The one glowing exception is the ease of using the powerful EDIS as stand-alone distributorless ignition with aftermarket control. Carb or EFI. It works great and is easy to do as compared to most aftermarket systems that can do the same thing; although some are even better. Easy packaging.

For my own clarification - I do not recommend using any EEC system, unless the user is bound and determined to apply it. But for cheap, easy, and works 'ok', it has its attraction. You want even cheaper, easier, and as good? Use a Honda ECU. Free tuning software, super-simple ZIF socket chipping, accurate data logging, tuning on-the-fly with emulators, more capabilities, and next to free at every boneyard in America. Of course, I'm not actually suggesting that's what you use instead for the same reasons I don't push EEC. For me, they fall in the same category as point ignitions and CD players, as useful (sometimes very useful) obsolete technology.

I am simply attempting to help those intent on using it, or portions of it, as they see fit. Like the guy in another thread that wants to delete his EFI for a carb in his pickup and still control the electronic tranny. It's the last thing I would do, but that's what he's comfortable with and wants to do - so more power to him. I can say what works for me, but I can't make that call for others.

So, for those reading for info, hopefully this thread helps you decide what's best for your project and your capabilities. Do your thing.

David

Update:

351- Cleveland

Decided to go with RetroTEK powerjection III systems. Much less costly than Mass-Flo-Inc and very simple install, self learning, fewer wires, self contained, plus allows for some tune capabilities. And PJ III only needs a SPOT tac like signal. So I'm thinking EDIS-8 could run with this system since both are primarly standalone. Correct?

Now about EDIS-8 should I go with standard ford EEC-IV or upgrade to MegaSquirt? I'm not an electronic tunner, I'm use to the old school mechanical dizzy tune. However I want the motor to run a performance advance not the big bro mandated eco retarded advance stuff.

It really depends on how much you are wanting to spend on the setup. I don't know what a MS system runs. Tuning with it isn't that difficult though. Whereas going with a say a complete EEC IV you won't have access to the programming unless you either buy the software package such as an SCT Pro Racer package which isn't cheap or say Moates if they have the processor in the data base and are much cheaper. The SCT stuff is expensive but has pretty much everything except data logging for an EEC IV. The Moates has real time data logging that piggybacks off the chip.

Here's a relative newcomer but doesn't use the EDIS Mass-Flo EFI, Inc., Mass Air Fuel Injection Systems!

Originally Posted by airrocket

...And PJ III only needs a SPOT tac like signal. So I'm thinking EDIS-8 could run with this system since both are primarly standalone. Correct?

Both systems can be separate, however EDIS must have a toothed wheel on the crankshaft to get its signal. It must also have its own controller - either built into the ECU or a separate like mentioned here. If you are running PJ III and EDIS/MJLJr, then you have no need for EEC-IV or MegaSquirt. Conversely, if you went with MS or EEC, then the PJ is redundant.

To be clear:
PJ III controls only fuel
EDIS/MJLJr control only ignition
EEC-IV controls both fuel and EDIS
MegaSquirt controls fuel and EDIS (and many other ignition schemes)

As a matter of fact, MS can give you total spark control using your existing distributor and coil. Some folks run MS for just its ignition control and leave the fuel control unconnected, and vice-versa.

David