Cheap becomes expensive

Originally Posted by dfree383

If Small Blocks where So Great Pro-Stock, Top-Fuel and Funny cars would be running them.......Cubic INCHES is where its at.

Joe your breaking your own rule, More Inches is better !!! When ever you get an N/A 347 to make 1200hp+ then I will Agree with you..........

You Can build a 700+ hp 460 based motor for less than a comaprable high HP small block, if that is the route you chose to go. Plus you can do it with a Junk yard Block, Crank and Factory Iron Heads...... Try that with your Small Block.......

All all the Weight BS is just that BS.....

Alot of Racers are going to Big Block Based Packages for Strength and durability you cannot get in a similar Small Block Package.

You are correct. I didnt want to insult anyone, everyone is welcome to do what they like best. my 460 block came out of a 71 Lincoln( whole engine $300). The beefy 2 bolt mains can handle up to 700-750HP with ease. As noted the steel heads, especially the pre 72 stuff flows pretty well with some easy porting. Dollar for dollar it is a cheap, durable package.

The prices for small block crank and heads I quoted above were for a 347. I know the 400 plus inch small block kits cost way more than that.

To be fair, you have to compare "apples to apples" here by making the same modifications to each.
Let's say you were to stroke a small block to a 427 which I believe is about as big as you can go with a stock block, and then build a comparable big block by stroking it to say a 521 with comparable parts such as forged rotating assembly, aluminum heads, intake, big carb, headers, ignition, etc:

The big block is going to cost more to build than the small block.

The big block is going to be physically larger and still weigh more than the small block. Ofcourse, how much this even matters depends on the application. It certainly doesn't matter nearly as much if you are putting it in a factory big block car, but it is a lot more trouble squeezing a big block into many small chassis cars such as a 64 1/2 - 66 Mustang or fox-bodies. It is even a tight squeeze in 67 and 68 Mustangs, and it is well documented how much the extra front end weight affects the handling of these cars.

However, there is something wrong if the 521 doesn't make somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 more horses and torque!

I also understand the argument that you can make just as much power for the same $5,000 with a less modified big block as a stroked out small block. Although many people would also argue that if you are going to make about the same power, then they would prefer the smaller, lighter engine for many applications. Keep in mind that the weight difference is even greater if you compare an aluminum headed small block with an iron headed big block.

Personally, I'd like to have one of each! I say build what you like and let the debates continue!!!

I liked the feeling when I did a quick stop light race against a factory 427 stang last summer.

At the car meet later, he was surprised I had a 302. That is a great feeling.

Originally Posted by kgordonl

To be fair, you have to compare "apples to apples" here by making the same modifications to each.
Let's say you were to stroke a small block to a 427 which I believe is about as big as you can go with a stock block, and then build a comparable big block by stroking it to say a 521 with comparable parts such as forged rotating assembly, aluminum heads, intake, big carb, headers, ignition, etc:

The big block is going to cost more to build than the small block.

The big block is going to be physically larger and still weigh more than the small block. Ofcourse, how much this even matters depends on the application. It certainly doesn't matter nearly as much if you are putting it in a factory big block car, but it is a lot more trouble squeezing a big block into many small chassis cars such as a 64 1/2 - 66 Mustang or fox-bodies. It is even a tight squeeze in 67 and 68 Mustangs, and it is well documented how much the extra front end weight affects the handling of these cars.

However, there is something wrong if the 521 doesn't make somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 more horses and torque!

I also understand the argument that you can make just as much power for the same $5,000 with a less modified big block as a stroked out small block. Although many people would also argue that if you are going to make about the same power, then they would prefer the smaller, lighter engine for many applications. Keep in mind that the weight difference is even greater if you compare an aluminum headed small block with an iron headed big block.

Personally, I'd like to have one of each! I say build what you like and let the debates continue!!!

Dude, somebody brainwashed you early and has probably taken alot of your money! I am building a very mild 521, 9.8:1, mild solid cam for a engine this size, nice heads and crank kit, 0.30 over and an 850cfm on a stealth( approx. 600-650HP - $4200) I didnt say anything about $5000, that was your number, which I am sure is a lower than realistic price for your Windsor. Yes they are a tight squeeze in any of the early mustangs thats for sure. i dont know why anybody would want to put one in a fox body or 65-66 anyway knowing the cost associated unless you are building a track car. However, they are much more low maintenance and durable. Also being I dont really have a German Autobahn in VA, I am not as concerned as you with that level of handling. 100 pounds heavier for an aluminum head BB and aluminum head SB is nothing for the overall torque and performance gains.By the way, if I wanted it to handle like driving on rails I would have built a NASCAR.

I have a 69 Mach 1 I have had since 1980. The 460 fits nicely between the shock towers. It was a 351W small block car originally. Most 67-70 stangs had the same distance between the towers contrary to popular belief (i measured my friends 67 390 GT, with the exception of the extra welded on support braces, they measure the same distance as his 289 Hi-Po). Even the Boss 429. ( See article in Mustang Monthly from original assembly line worker, Sept, 2007) To each his own Bud. Maybe one day you will see the light!

***Would like to add with the Lincoln steel heads and for about $2200-2500 less I can easily make at least 550 HP just 30 over and stock stroke crank and rods(466 inches). If you think that 10.1 424W is making anywhere near 500 HP your dreaming. The AOD would come apart, no matter how beefed up! Send some dyno results.

Also for the other guy, Ford only made a handful of 427 mustangs. They were in 68 only. I have never seen one. Saw a couple of GTE 68 Cougars though with the 427.

Dont forget your trans option differences. If your not going auto, all you have for a BB are BB toploaders which are spendy, or tremac stuff, which im pretty sure you need to hack up the trans tunnel to make fit. One big thing keeping me from a big block

Originally Posted by sharpshot71

Dont forget your trans option differences. If your not going auto, all you have for a BB are BB toploaders which are spendy, or tremac stuff, which im pretty sure you need to hack up the trans tunnel to make fit. One big thing keeping me from a big block

if your curious, I am going to run a TKO 600 for a mustang (67-70), the only tranny mod is a $1 bill size cut in the tunnel brace (underneath). Check Keisler Engineering (Keisler Engineering, Inc. The best 5-speed and 6-speed transmission systems | Classic car transmission | camaro transmission | corvette transmission | mustang transmission) They make complete kits. No destroying the tunnel as you would think. The c- 6 option for an automatic is not a bad option anyway. Cheap tough trans, a little drag but easy to remedy. There is also nothing wrong with small blocks! I was just trying to say for the cost associated with stroking them, they are more expensive to enlarge than a 460 for the gains.

so that is the only mod for a TKO? i wasnt sure. that is a mod i would think about doing. I got the impression somewhere that the trans tunnel really needs to be hacked up. For me, a auto really isnt an option. i like shifting. and overdrive.

Big block Small block Who cares as long as its a Ford wipping the ass of a Chev or Dodge!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by sharpshot71

so that is the only mod for a TKO? i wasnt sure. that is a mod i would think about doing. I got the impression somewhere that the trans tunnel really needs to be hacked up. For me, a auto really isnt an option. i like shifting. and overdrive.

According to keisler. They have Tremecs for various apps. There are other kits that may require more hacking but according to them that is it. I was also concerned becasuse I do not want to destroy my car. I am also going to use the stock console in my 69. It is an expensive kit but covers everything to include the driveshaft to the back of the engine. Call or email them.

Originally Posted by mustang4665

Dude, somebody brainwashed you early and has probably taken alot of your money!
If you think that 10.1 424W is making anywhere near 500 HP your dreaming. The AOD would come apart, no matter how beefed up! Send some dyno results.

And you think I'm brainwashed!!!!!