To Stroke or not.

Originally Posted by HI93LX

Alright, I've commited to stroking to a 408. I have been eyeing the trick flow upper end kit (heads,intake,Cam,etc.) but I am wondering if I could save some money by getting some heads off
e-bay, Im thinkin GT-40 heads or something a little cheaper than AFR'S. I would like to buy the heads first so I know if I hafto get notched pistons or not. Also what size combustion chambers do I want for my compression to be 10-1 in the 408. Im so clueless when it comes to CC, or duration or lobe or spring rate I just know I like to go fast. Im learning very quickly though thanks to all of you.

You're on the right track... I would decide on the heads first since you are looking for a bargain. Keep in mind that there is a BIG difference in GT-40's and AFR's or Trick Flows. Maybe you can find a compromise with some Vic Jr.'s, RHS, or something like that. Or if you are lucky, maybe you can find a used set of good heads. However, if you are going to splurge on anything, the heads are a good place to splurge! You may not really save much (or end up spending more) if you have to rebuild some used heads or have to do lot of work on some cheap heads.
GT-40's might work well on 289's and 302's, but they have small runners and valves for a 408. In any case, once you find your heads, then you can match up the right pistons, cam, etc.

Thats what I needed to hear gordon Thanks. Ive been toying with the trick flow twisted wedge kit. I know those heads will require notched pistons but Im not sure witch size CC to get. Keeping compression down is key for me. The highest octane gas we can get here in HI is 92. So running on pump gas is very imp. Plus I would like the option of boost later. Im sure Ill have lots more questions
coming up.

Should I move this thread to a different section?

Originally Posted by HI93LX

Thats what I needed to hear gordon Thanks. Ive been toying with the trick flow twisted wedge kit. I know those heads will require notched pistons but Im not sure witch size CC to get. Keeping compression down is key for me. The highest octane gas we can get here in HI is 92. So running on pump gas is very imp. Plus I would like the option of boost later. Im sure Ill have lots more questions
coming up.

Should I move this thread to a different section?

I build alot of these, going to run atleast a 22 cc or larger dish when building a 400 inch motor with small ford chamber heads, 58-60 being most common, the biggest head you can afford is what you do, period. A gt40 head on a 400 inch motor will be an absolute joke, it will pull real hard to 4500rpm and hit a brick wall. Most common setup I do is as follows

4.032 bore
22cc dish
4.00 inch crank
6.250 rod
0 deck
fel pro 1011 head gasket
58-60 cc head

10.5:1

Originally Posted by woody1

I build alot of these, going to run atleast a 22 cc or larger dish when building a 400 inch motor with small ford chamber heads, 58-60 being most common, the biggest head you can afford is what you do, period. A gt40 head on a 400 inch motor will be an absolute joke, it will pull real hard to 4500rpm and hit a brick wall. Most common setup I do is as follows
4.032 bore
22cc dish
4.00 inch crank
6.250 rod
0 deck
fel pro 1011 head gasket
58-60 cc head
10.5:1

OK one more stupid question. The 22cc dish is the piston dish right? and if i run these dish pistons will they clear the valves on the twisted wedge heads. Sorry Im on a pretty big learning curve. I just registered at sbftech.com and I will probably call you when Im ready to order the rotating assermbley.
Thanks again.

Yes, the 22cc is a dish piston. A 408 with flat tops will put you in the 12:1 comp range, so you have to use a dish to get it down to a streetable range. This works out fine because moving the combustion chamber down into the piston actually makes more power. You will typically see people using 58 to 61cc chambers on 408's.
Whatever heads you go with, Trick Flow or otherwise, you can easily match up the right set of pistons once you know exactly what you are working with. These days there are lots of pistons available for 408's.
To Woody 1's point, 408's need to breath, so look for heads with no less than 195cc runners (preferably 200cc to 210cc) and at least 2.02 valves. Even with big flowing heads, a 408 will still make plenty of bottom end torque and then make big-time top end HP.
For a great point of reference, take a look at some of the builds at AFR Cylinder Heads Inc: Aluminum cylinder head manufacturing and flow dynamics. Click the Articles tab at the top, and click Small Block Ford Articles. You can learn a lot by reading these articles. No need to reinvent the wheel here, just go with what's been proven to work.

Originally Posted by HI93LX

OK one more stupid question. The 22cc dish is the piston dish right? and if i run these dish pistons will they clear the valves on the twisted wedge heads. Sorry Im on a pretty big learning curve.
Thanks again.

The Probe's are a 22cc dish and have both inline and TFS reliefs. Yes, they'll clear the TFS heads.

Brian

Wow man you guys are just the encyclopedia of building motors. I hope I dont sound like too much of an idiot but Im a wood worker not a car builder and all of your information is really appreciated.
Will a 10.5:1 ratio be Tame enough for a DD. See i had a 87 that i had someone just build me a motor in and when all was said and done it had gobs of power but it would barely idle and I got like 2-3
mpg afterspending about 50 bucks for 10 gallons after all the addatives I was putting in the gas.
I had to take out a small loan to go to the track HaHa. Any way thats why I want this motor to be really tame, I like to drive my cars allot thats what their built for. Ill start researching heads and Ill let you guys know what I decide. Thanks Again.

Lots of great advice already given..Remember with aluminium heads you can run a little more compression than with iron heads..Something in the 10ish range should easily be streetable on pump gas with the correct camshaft...I'm running 10.7 on sunoco 94 with no problems.

If I can get the gremlins out of my transmission so that I can get my car to the dyno, I'll let you know how well a set of worked over Pro Comp 210's with 2.05/1.60 valves perform! I'm still waiting to see for myself if they were truly a bargain. Although, I can tell you that they do seem to work awefully well in 1st gear!
I'll also stop posting to every thread on here because I'll be too busy driving my car!!!

I can tell you that with 10:1, my engine seems to run just fine with 93 octane. I also have one of the smaller cams you will see on here with this kind of build. At idle you definately know it's in there and I may need a vacuum canister for my power brakes (they're a little "spongy" at idle), but it idles just fine at 700 rpm. I wanted something very "street-friendly" as well.

Oh god transmissions. I would like to put in a T56 when I put in the motor and thats what is probably going to hold me up financially. The T5 thats in it now is getting tired and i know the 408 will just blow up the t5. Chaching!