Toploader Input Shaft Replacement

I just think once you get up to a certain HP level, you begin to find limitations of all equipment stock or High performance parts. It's a viscous circle. You get your drivetrain to hold the power you have, then you go for more power and start breaking stuff again. LOL. I've candy caned input shafts, broke output shafts, axles, yokes, you name it! If it could be broke I broke it! hehe. Like I said in my article on the C4, after all the money I had spent over the years keeping a 4-speed in mine...I could have bought a Lenco or Liberty Transmission. You will always continue to find the weak link. That's Racin'. Output is next. Now that the input is not going to give, you'll just keep transferring the weak link on back.

EXCELLENT thread.

We need more on the older transmissions. A lot of good info. I recently rebuilt my 3 speed toploader and it's a bear to dig up info on these transmissions. Those needle bearings are a pain to dig out of the case if they drop out of the race . Have you ever rebuilt one of the 3 spd. toploaders? One thing I couldn't figure out with my rebuild was how loose the output shaft bearing should be? On the 4spd. it seems to be a pressfit into the case. On the 3spd it seems to be a drop in into the case? any thoughts on this? The rebuild manuals really don't seem to adress proper case tolerances and bearing sizes.

On a side note a decent source for aftermarket gears for both the 4spd. and 3spd. toploaders is TransStar. It took me 4 months of searching to find this source. It seems that the rebuild shops around here regard parts sourcing, for internals, as some sort of proprietory secret. Maybe some of you could donate your vast experience and start some sort of sticky for toploader parts sourcing. It sure would be appreciated and well used. Of course I referenced all the high profile sources like 4speedtoploaders.com, 5speeds.com and toploaderheaven.com. . Although these sites have a lot of the gearing and hard parts it has been impossible for me to source individual parts like needle bearings, detents, detent springs, and case plugs.

Originally Posted by SDJIRICEK

One thing I couldn't figure out with my rebuild was how loose the output shaft bearing should be? On the 4spd. it seems to be a pressfit into the case. On the 3spd it seems to be a drop in into the case? any thoughts on this?

On a 4-speed, both the front and rear bearings press fit onto the input and output shafts, but slide freely into the case.

On the last couple I did, I chocked the input and main shafts into a large drill press and used sanding cloth on the shafts until the bearings would -just- slide on and off for easier assembly/disassembly.

Originally Posted by n2omike

On a 4-speed, both the front and rear bearings press fit onto the input and output shafts, but slide freely into the case.

On the last couple I did, I chocked the input and main shafts into a large drill press and used sanding cloth on the shafts until the bearings would -just- slide on and off for easier assembly/disassembly.

I take it that this convuluted contraption is only used to pull the bearing from the shaft and not from the case?

Originally Posted by SDJIRICEK

I take it that this convuluted contraption is only used to pull the bearing from the shaft and not from the case?

Yes. That bearing is pressed onto the mainshaft, not the case. The problem with removing it, is that long mainshaft! Most pullers will not work with that long shaft in the way!

Traditionally, the front and rear main bearings... the ones at the front and rear of the case... are removed before the transmission is dis-assembled. There are ways around it, but that's the way it is traditionally done. Special tools are needed since that long shaft is in the way.

Dennis showed how to remove the input without removing the front bearing first by dropping the cluster gear. Maybe he'll share how he removes the rear bearing. There's a small town Ford dealership two miles away from my house, so I would just run down there and let them use their tool. (different than the one shown) They are friendly, and I know a lot of them, so it would generally cost me from between $0 and $12 to get them both pulled off... as it didn't take them but a couple minutes.

Originally Posted by n2omike

Special tools are needed since that long shaft is in the way.

Dennis showed how to remove the input without removing the front bearing first by dropping the cluster gear. Maybe he'll share how he removes the rear bearing.

Nothing special needed to remove the rear bearing either, but you must do a complete disassembly of the case.

Drop the counter gear and remove the input shaft as above. Next remove the shift forks, trunions, springs, and shift rails in order to remove the complete output shaft assembly out of the case. Reverse gear can remain in the case. Remove the countershaft. Then remove the C Clip that holds the bearing on the output shaft. Set the casing on end and put the whole output shaft back into place. Using a block of wood and a big hammer, hit the end of the output shaft which will drive the bearing off the shaft similar to what was done with the input shaft.

To reinstall that bearing, I put the assembled output shaft back into the case and use a 6" piece of heavy pipe as a slide hammer to drive the bearing into place. The pipe must be able to go over the output shaft and yet only contact the inner race of the bearing. After the bearing starts on the shaft, you can set he bearing partually in the case, ensuring that it is sticking out maybe 3/8" from where it normally would rest up against the C Clip that fits around the outer diameter of the bearing.

It really does work and be sure to use a little lubricating spray on the shaft and the inner race before driving the bearing on. If I have gone this far, I normally remove the needle bearings out of the countergear, clean them up and reinstall them with a grease packing then put the dummy shaft back in. The grease helps keep the needles in place and it is much, much easier later on when it is time to install the countershaft in the counter gear.

Thx Dennis111, great article. Didn´t know they had BB inputs for SB´s. I also broke an output shaft first. I hope Woodys and Jaysrecipes don´t brake the input, or i kinda hope they do ...

Originally Posted by Mosse

Thx Dennis111, great article. Didn´t know they had BB inputs for SB´s. I also broke an output shaft first. I hope Woodys and Jaysrecipes don´t brake the input, or i kinda hope they do ...

Thank you Mosse.

Yep, your right--the new combo just might break the bank.

Hey looking and pleading and searching i need a 3 spd overdrive toploader like come in the granada any leads any help would be appreciated??????

Originally Posted by Mcdaniel01

Hey looking and pleading and searching i need a 3 spd overdrive toploader like come in the granada any leads any help would be appreciated??????

They are pretty common. Lots of them turn up on ebay and FEandgoingbroke (on this board) has/had one for sale in the pacific northwest. Hopefully you posted your request in the wanted ads of this site.