16 Comments

1. 
   

   I feel like you can combine both a trip to a dealer, and the internet to find a new truck. Look at a few local dealers inventory on the internet. Go out to the dealer and see the truck in person. Drive it..no matter what the salesman says, tell him you are shopping around and doing your homework. Find a couple of similar vehicles at two or three dealers and go back to the house and email them requesting a price. If it is the last week of the month, get ready to watch the bidding begin, and close a deal during the last week. It will save you a bunch.

   By Rich S.. October 8th, 2007 at 10:10 am
2. 
   

   I was wondering if I could find a used ford pickup for like
   six to five thousand dollars

   By Shianne. May 26th, 2007 at 6:43 am
3. 
   

   i m intrusted in buying . pls send me price and more specifications

   By badar. October 5th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
4. 
   

   I work as a car salesman.I get a lot of pride from helping people find the right car for them. I spend a large amount of time listening to what people want in a car and trying to match them to the right vehicle. There is nothing “sleazy” about that. I feel I deserve to be paid well for the job that I do. You can’t get feedback, or another opinion from the internet. You can’t drive a car or feel how it drives over the net. You can’t get an accurate trade-in appraisal over the net. All these things take some time, effort, and experience. Do you feel like I don’t deserve anything for my efforts? (besides, of course, those looks of suspicion I get from almost everyone)

   By travis. May 26th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
5. 
   

   I haven’t visited this blog in a while, came back & saw a couple of new posts. Yesterday was a typical day at work, so let me share 3 car deals that went south, from the view point of the dealership. Unfortunately I am at a Chevy dealer, but my blood runs Ford blue.

   Deal #1: Customer from out of the area comes in with a used high mileage Expedition as trade, wants loaded new Tahoe, the hotest thing we have to sell, wants the Nav system, which is on constraint (can’t meet demand) and in Black, we have one. We’ve added GM cat back exhaust & Chrome 20″ wheel package. Guy wants bottom line price, one shot. I agree. We print out Kelly trade in value from the internet & offer to match “fair” trade in value, at close to 100k on the odometer, that’s probably more than it will bring at auction, but it’s raining & we want to make a sale. We then go to Edmunds.com and print out the specs on our vehicle, because even when you show an invoice, people seem to think we can make those up (we can’t). Edmunds lists MSRP, Invoice, and current true market value. We offer to sell the Tahoe for LESS than Edmunds says he should pay, and give him the exhaust & wheels at our cost, or we could remove the wheels & switch back to stock. HE STILL COUNTERS! Our proposal was no hassel, fair, honest and straightforward, and the customer still WANTED to negotiate, even when he said from the start it was a one shot deal. Its raining, we want a sale, so darn it, we bite and offer to knock another $300 dollars off. He accepts, goes into finance, signs all the papers up until the contract. He sees the contract (which was exactly the same out the door total we had agreed on) and then argues with the business manager that it should be that total LESS his trade. In other words, he thinks he should get another $7000 off. Now you know what? The salesman, his closer, the desk manager, and the finance manager have invested 3 hours in what should have been a 15 minute deal, and it sure wasn’t our fault. The guy walked.

   Deal #2, same day: Customer of our internet department comes in. Our internet price on an Equinox in stock is dead invoice. We keep the holdback. That translates into about a $300 profit to the dealer after commission to the internet salesman. Customer however, wants Black Amythest color AWD, and there is only two within 300 miles, one at a dealer that doesn’t do trades. Customer already knows where the other one is, and even has already worked numbers on the same vehicle at another dealership. And guess what. At her numbers she can’t hit her payment goal! She has a trade that she owes $14600 on, but it has a trade in value of $6600. Now math is math, and when you roll $8000 of negative equity from your trade-in to your new vehicle, it shows up in the amount financed, the monthly payment, and affects the amount of interest. They have great credit, so we propose a solution by using a vehicle in stock that has some dealer cash available, and we hit her payment goal, but the loan will wind up at 96 months. OUCH, I know, but that’s the math. The customer says yes (much to my surprise), moves all their personal belongings from the trade in to the new vehicle, reviews their new owners manual, calls their friends and tells them about her new car. Now I have the same margin, about $300, and again, have invested about 3 hours figuring out a way to help them get out of a car they hate, into one they like. She is just about to get into finance, and it finally dawns on her how much $450×96 really is, freaks out, and cancels the sale.

   Deal #3 same day: Customer comes in from out of town with pre-approval from their credit union at 7% for $19000. They pick out a $21995 used car. Again, please do the math. $21995+ tax does not equal $19000, but hey, they like the car. If I can get them financed at a similar rate, they will make a deal. They have a prior bankrupcy, so 7% is just not something I can get them, but I get on the phone with one of my banks, and negotiate the buy rate that the bank wants to charge them down from 12.9% to 9.9% for a small fee. The bank will allow us to earn a mark up on the loan, but to make the deal we offer to write the contract at the buy rate, and eat the fee. The customer accepts our offer to sell the used car for $19201+fees at 9.9% They go into finance, sign all the papers, and then it comes out that the insurance card they showed us is really only for liability. You can’t drive a financed vehicle without comp & collision. They won’t let us help them get insurance anywhere but their company (which is closed weekends). We call 11 agents, all closed. 3 MORE hours invested and, NO SALE…

   These examples sound far fetched? Not really, this is pretty much a typical day, and are exactly why most auto transactions really can’t be completed over the internet. There are just too many components to a car deal. We worked 9 car deals, but only delivered 2 cars. So again my summary is: for a true cash transaction on an ordered vehicle, internet is great, simple, timesaving, and hassle free. Thankfully for my job security, most auto transactions are financed, have a trade, and have some kind of credit issues.

   David
   70 Torino GT
   63 Falcon

   By David. April 23rd, 2006 at 7:56 am
6. 
   

   Yes you can buy a new vehicle on-line! That’s how I bought my 2003 F-350 Super-duty. I e-mailed local dealers a list of options I wanted & they sent me their prices. I choose the best price & only had to go to the dealer twice, once to order my truck & make my down-payment, &, second, to pick-up my new truck when it came-in. Pretty simple & easy & a whole lot less head aches & aggravasion!

   By DENNIS. April 8th, 2006 at 9:42 am
7. 
   

   David,

   So your saying the dealer could have met the price of Cars direct if he would have showed them the price? Then why not give the lowest price the will sell at up front. Then if it’s more than he was willing to pay at least they know it wasn’t worth their time to deal with him. Instead dealers are willing to waist my time and theirs by trying to squeeze a few bucks from me.

   I’ve bought my last 3 cars through Auto-by-tel. Even though I had to wait for a call from a salesman I was given a true bottom line price up front within 2 minutes of answering the phone. I then stopped in at the dealer and gave them a down payment that took me 5 minutes. 6 weeks later I walked in and gave them a check for my new specially ordered car. We went over a check list looking over the car, signed the papers and I was out in 20 minutes. I got a great deal and they made enough money on the deal to stay in business. If all dealers worked this way they would get by either with fewer sales people or with selling more cars as all their time wouldn’t be taken up negotiating price. Yes they would still have time invested in showing the car to people who want to look and feel before buying but before using Auto-by-tel I’ve spent hours negotiating price on a car. Usually only being ticked off and not buying from them anyway. Yes, I’m the car buyer you guys hate, I refuse to pay too much. And no, bottom line price isn’t everything to me. If I were to feel I was at a great dealer who was going to really take care of me after the sale I would pay a few $100 more. I’ve yet to feel that I was anything more than a paycheck to them when we were negotiating price. In fact I’ve always felt they have been being far less than honest about what they would and could sell the car for. Why else would they be able to meet or beat a price off the internet only after they know what the price is.

   I love new cars, I havn’t bought used in years, I equally hate playing the dealer game. Some day I hope to find a local dealer who will give me an open honest bottom line price up front (based off of invoice). Till then, it will be only the internet for me.

   By Bloose. April 8th, 2006 at 2:38 am
8. 
   

   […] In the truck segment, Ford Explorer sales declined 31 percent. The Expedition, Excursion and Freestar vehicles also posted sharp declines. Sales of Ford’s F-Series grew, rising 4.5 percent to 84,168 units — marking the brand’s third consecutive month of gains. Ford said it was the third consecutive month that sales rose for the nation’s best-selling vehicle, despite growing competition from Asian imports. Ford U.S. sales analysis manager George Pipas said March is traditionally a big month for truck sales. (I helped.) […]

   By fordmuscle.com » Blog Archive » Ford Sales Crash. April 4th, 2006 at 8:44 pm
9. 
   

   David:

   I understand your defensiveness, as I’d be offended too if I were in the new car sales business and were stereotyped as above. But that’s because I wouldn’t do business the way all too many car dealerships across the country choose to. Face it, the industry has earned the stereotype they have.

   I’ve been buying and selling cars as a consumer for over 25 years. I’m in the military, so I’ve done it all over the US. Unfortunately, the stereotype of dishonesty and excessive markup are all too real, even in this day of internet-empowered consumers. I’m pretty good at playing the game, and I’ve owned more vehicles than I can count easily, all purchased well below retail price by “playing the game”. Honestly, I’m tired of it too. I disagree with your statement that all fixed-price, non-commissioned sales dealerships have ultimately failed. Dave Smith Motors in Kellog, ID, is billed as the largest Dodge dealer in the US. The buying experience is awesome. Most failed ventures in the past that I’ve had experience with, were fixed price, but asking full retail, or close to it! Of course they’re not going to do well, as most consumers know that they don’t have to pay full price (that’s also the same reason that most consumers initiate the negotiating process: we know that you’re asking more than what you’re willing to sell the car for).

   I don’t blame you for being offended by the article, as the namecalling was unnecessary. I don’t agree with your opinion that the current business model is the only one that will work. The dealerships that get on the front edge of the change process will see their volume and income grow. There may always be a place for the traditional dealership, much like the traditional storefront, but the dealerships that look to the future and adapt will prosper, while many of those who cling to tightly to the past will become relegated to the past.

   By Greg W. March 14th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
10. 
    

    David,
    You bring up some good points, and I am sure you run a successful dealership.

    However - I bought the car online for $21,700 whereas four local dealerships all wanted anywhere from 23,500 to 26,400 for the exact same truck (down to the VIN number).
    Could I have beat them down some on price, probably. But why should I have to play game?

    By Chirag. March 13th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
11. 
    

    Clemson & Chirag,
    Obviously, I am in the new car sales business. I manage a dealership. I got in this business after managing restaurants for 14 years because I love cars, and I love people. I don’t employ monkeys, or sharks, or sleeze balls. I employ a retired teacher, a retired Safeway manager, a former beer distributor, a former mortgage broker, a Vietnam Vet, a minister, many college graduates, a real estate investor, a prune rancher, a handicaped gentleman with only one arm, and many others. These citizens are trained, tested, certified, drug screened; and must be fingerprinted and licensed to sell cars by the State of California. These are the same people who take their paychecks and spend them in the community. Our dealership donated over $50,000 to local charities and organizations last year. We sponsored the largest free Custom Car & Truck show in Northen California last year on our property, and provided free food, beverages, T-shirts, and dash plaques to all who attended. WE are the people you slander so freely. So yes, you struck a chord.

    Yes I care about providing a positive purchase experience, whether at the dealership, or over the internet. We provide retail, fleet and internet purchase options as appropriate. We are accountable to the factories we represent to provide honest, high quality customer service.

    New car sales are THE engine that drives the U.S. economy, the and new car Sales Consultants are tires that put that rubber to the road.

    I am not suggesting you do business with someplace that you don’t like, or with someone you don’t like. In fact the reason a second salesperson often comes by and greets a customer is simply us trying to find out if the first salesperson and customer failed to click. We want our customers paired with someone they like, trust, and want to do business with. From the tone of both the article, and the replies, I expect that your bad experience on car lots is a result of a self fufilling prophecy. If you’d take the chip off of your shoulder, and erase the outdated stereotype you are clinging to, you would find that the salesperson cares about you and your purchase, and that the car shopping and purchasing experience actually can be a whole lot of fun.

    I’m also not expecting anybody to pay more than they should. However, just like houses, boats, motorhomes, property, construction contracts,etc., automobiles are negotiable purchases. Do you know what? We don’t like that any more than you do, yet it is ALWAYS the customer that begins the negotiation process, not the dealership. I am certain that if you had taken your internet quote into the dealership, that they could match or beat the price, because after all, Folsom Ford had to pay a cut to CarsDirect, that they would not have had to pay had you gone there in person.

    By David R.. March 13th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
12. 
    

    David R,

    Regarding these statements…

    “If you want to live in a world where you can not touch, see, feel, and drive a new vehicle before buying it, where you don’t mind waiting 6-10 weeks before it gets delivered, where if when it gets delivered you hate the baby poop tan interior that looked so cool in the brochure, then an internet only sales model might work.”

    Put the cars in a display warehouse and downgrade automobile salespeople to just helpers, like monkeys with the keys to the cars. They can check the consumer in and out and keep their mouths shut while we inspect the cars. Then the consumer goes home and makes the online purchase. No salesman needed. They have similar events in my town.

    By clemson. March 13th, 2006 at 10:24 am
13. 
    

    Clemson,
    If you want to live in a world where you can not touch, see, feel, and drive a new vehicle before buying it, where you don’t mind waiting 6-10 weeks before it gets delivered, where if when it gets delivered you hate the baby poop tan interior that looked so cool in the brochure, then an internet only sales model might work. But in reality, few are willing to allow the second most expensive purchase that they will make in their lifetime sight unseen. This is why both business models will co-exist. The internet as an information medium has been a benifit to the industry, as it is much more pleasant to deal with an informed customer with a realistic expectation than an uninformed shopper with expectations that are impossible to meet.

    What I meant to imply, is that just as there are good Christians and corrupt Christians, honest doctors and corrupt doctors, the myth of the “shark” salesprofessional is just that, BUNK. How would you like to have people who don’t know you say that what you do for a legal honest living is corrupt? The parts that I buy for my muscle car have a mark up that is far greater as a percentage of the sale price than any car ever sold on a car lot. I don’t call the parts counter man a “sleazy parts salesscum”, now do I? He tells me the price, and I write the check. If his price is too high I shop.
    90% of the customers that come on a new car lot are nice, friendly, wonderful people. 10% walk on the lot with a chip on their shoulder. To that 10%, please, buy it on the internet!

    By David R.. March 12th, 2006 at 6:29 pm
14. 
    

    David,

    Thanks for your comments, it seems as if I struck a chord with you. Are you a car salesman?

    Why should I broaden my outlook on dealships? The point of my article was to give you my experience on buying a car online, not to make a compelling case to over pay for a car at a dealership.

    Not a single dealership gave me a real price, they all inflated it $3000 or more. Ya I know it is part of the game, but guess what, I’m going where I can get the lowest price. I suppose you are okay paying for this since, after all, we should pity the poor salesmen because he may be our neighbor, the parent of our childs friend. Please, give me a break David. I wouldn’t over pay for a dental checkup just because my neighbor was a dentist either.

    Seriously, take a good look at why the US automakers are struggling. A large part of the equation is the car buying experience. That is why there has been so much effort in recent years to change it. That is why the auto makers are closing/consolidating dealerships, not opening new ones on each street corner. I think you are defending something that is proving itself to be anitquated in this age of information empowerment.

    Chirag

    By Chirag. March 12th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
15. 
    

    David R,

    Regarding this comment…

    “So while your observations on your online car buying experience are relevant to fellow enthusiasts I might suggest you broaden your outlook to see both sides of the coin and leave your personal bias and predjudice out of what should have been a more complete and accurate examination of the automobile sales industry”

    This website, FordMuscle, is about enthusiasts. I’ve been visiting here for years because these guys cater to people like me. The content is geared for us.

    You may want to consider the fact that the internet has put the consumer in control. Even non-enthusiasts are using online peer groups to make their new car buying decisions. Enthusiasts don’t need salespeople and one day neither will non-enthusiasts. Sounds like you’re getting burned by the greatest medium of all time. Finally, consumers are in control, forcing a complete rethinking of established distribution channels and tradtional ways of selling goods and services. You should embrace it on use it to your advantage. I’m confident that my children will never deal with automobile salespeople.

    By Clemson. March 12th, 2006 at 4:15 pm
16. 
    

    So, you want the luxury of being able to browse through millions of dollars in inventory, without contributing to the profit that pays for it to sit there? You are one of the 10% that a sales professional dreads. Your stereo type of the automobile sales professional as a “cheezy salesman” is the equivalent of stereo typing police officers as pigs. Lets examine who automobile salespeople really are; they are your next door neighbor, the guy on the pew next to you at church, the owner of that cool Mustang next to yours at the street meet. Their kids play on the same playground as your kids. Oh, buy the way, what is it that you do for a living, so that we can make a judgement about what you do if we so choose?

    I challenge you to open a business, expend millions of dollars in capital investments, hire 200 employees who will depend on the success of your endevour for their livelyhood, and then let complete strangers mull around in your inventory and on your property unaccompanied. Oh, then sell everything at cost, afterall, you don’t need to make a profit to pay the mortgage, or flooring, or salaries, or repair lot damaged cars, or replace the gearshift knobs that those unaccompanied guests stole, oh, no.

    Trust me, you wouldn’t stay in business 6 months.

    Every attempt at one price selling, and salaried automobile sales representatives eventually fails. The current business model in the car business pays the bills, and the influence of the internet might modify the sales process, but it will not replace it.

    So while your observations on your online car buying experience are relevant to fellow enthusiasts, I might suggest you broaden your outlook to see both sides of the coin and leave your personal bias and predjudice out of what should have been a more complete and accurate examination of the automobile sales industry.

    By David R.. March 12th, 2006 at 3:10 pm

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